What have you learned lately?

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:41 pm

Count Arioch the 28th wrote: Ah, then it makes sense. And not surprising, humans miscarriage an awful lot.

I remember my wife saying something like one in three pregnancies end in miscarriage before the first trimester. Because of that, we didn't tell people when she was pregnant until the second trimester, so as not to get people's hopes up.

erik · Post by **erik** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:24 pm

tzor wrote:This is especially true when you have major organizations deliberately trying to hide factual data because if people really knew the scope of the magnitude of legal abortions in the United States there would be riots in the streets!

Imagine if the right winger christians got their way and they outlawed natural abortions (miscarriages). Could we arrest god for his near 2 in 5 murder rate of american non-citizens?

[edit: I thought it was higher than that! The 15-20% of pregnancies being miscarried is of known pregnancies. The number of fertilized eggs that are spontaneously aborted before they are big enough to notice is much higher. It brings the number of fertilizations spontaneously aborted to 30-50%]

[further edit: snarkiness aside, the 1/5 number sounds legit for tzor... doesn't stop god from being the #1 abortionist, but there ya go]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_i ... ted_States
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:40 pm

Crissa wrote:...So you don't believe black women should be able to choose when to sacrifice their lives to children?

Oh please Crissa, “sacrifice their lives?” Oh please, cry me a river.

I know I’m an evil meanie for not wanting self serving butchers to, in the name of ‘choice’ brutally (and more often than not under conditions that most medical professionals would consider barbaric) assault a woman, kill her unborn child and leave emotional scars that will last for the rest of her life. Especially when a simple (effective; not the crap that Planned Parenthood gives out which is practically designed to fail) condom or a proper pill regimen would provide a safer method to control childbirth.

And before you cry me a Republican rant, consider all those programs where abuses in the system prevent the actual desired effect from even happening; all those women who abuse food stamps to feed their habits while their children suffer. You progressives are in love with various enslavement programs in the name of “we are helping.”

P.S. (I love how desperate people shot gun because they can’t stay on topic.) Republicans and Student Loans? I thought they were two great things that go well together, assuming you are talking about the free market and not this progressive enslavement system bullshit. Key Republican Says 'Fight Is Not Over' on Student Loans “I remain hopeful we can keep some private capital in this and keep the private sector involved,” the new top Republican on the House education committee told three higher-education reporters in an interview. “We’re not rolling over.”

Because deep down we all know what they pulled with the banks and the auto industry they will pull with graduate students, “Hey you owe ‘the people’ money, therefore we have the right to dictate to you what you can and cannot do, what salary is appropriate and anything else we God damn well please!”

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:53 pm

clikml wrote:Imagine if the right winger christians got their way and they outlawed natural abortions (miscarriages).

It being understood that there exists a moron for every notion under the sun; most pro-life people are not so stupid as to want to outlaw natural abortions (miscarriages) anymore than most people concerned about automobile safety would want to outlaw a tire blowout when traveling on the highways. Both may want to invest capital to ensure that we could live in an age where such things don’t happen, however.

By the way, the general rate for natural abortions and failed implantations is one reason why I personally differ from most pro-life people and do not strongly object to methods which prevent implantation of a fertilized embryo in the womb (such as the ‘morning after’ pill, although I am concerned that the exception could be come the norm and abuse of hormone overdosing could lead to more problems for the woman avoiding pregnancy).

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:36 pm

True story time:

I was a difficult pregnancy. My mother had gestational diabetes and what at the time was called toxemia (we now call it preeclampsia). It was touch and go there for a while whether my pregnancy would kill her. She elected to wait and see, and ultimately I was delivered successfully via C-section.

But the important part is that this was an informed choice. Getting an abortion was quick and easy, so that she could choose to ride it out. If getting an abortion had required tracking down a shady illegal hookup, them my mother would have played it safe and gotten one. If getting one had required a long waiting list or proving need or traveling to another state or nation - she would have played it safe and gotten one. Had there been any speed bumps at all, my mother would have gone over them right away out of entirely rational fear that she would not be able of going over them if things turned out worse and it became a time-critical life-or-death decision.

Seriously, I am only alive because abortion is safe, legal, and on-demand. If the "pro-life" thugs had gotten any of their way, I would never have been born.

-Username17

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:03 pm

Ahh, yes, the 'free' market, where the government pays companies to provide student loans or students get loans at credit-card rates from the schools that advertise on TV.

Why does tzor lie, anyhow? What's the point of it?

-Crissa

koz · Post by **koz** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:58 pm

Maxus wrote:So, anyone learn anything interesting lately?

Does shadzar being the most chronic retard I have ever met count as 'interesting'?

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:58 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:Seriously, I am only alive because abortion is safe, legal, and on-demand. If the "pro-life" thugs had gotten any of their way, I would never have been born.

Yes but very few pro-life people argue against abortion in the real case of the physical life of the mother. We would, however, like to see those cases done in a real hospital where real doctors could handle any complications that might occur.

The problem is that people claim "abortions are safe and legal." The reality is that illegal abortionists can now perform "legal" abortions and the back alley is now just a crappy office room. Most abortion mills would make 18th century medicine seem sanitary by comparison.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:02 pm

tzor wrote:Yes but very few pro-life people...

Didn't we already pretty much prove that your assertions of what is and isn't regarding self-identified groups of people is pretty much nonsense and/or reverse of facts at hand?

-Crissa

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:03 pm

Crissa wrote:Ahh, yes, the 'free' market, where the government pays companies to provide student loans ...

Hey it worked for me.

Really, back in the 1980's the federal government linked up with this loan company to provide me with a college loan that literally had a lower interest rate than the rate of inflation. Really, I think everyone should have that opportunity, don't you?

I'm sorry, but private companies are much nicer in the loan collection business. I trust them. I don't trust Pelosi, or Reed, or any member of either Congress or the Senate.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:06 pm

Tzor wrote:Yes but very few pro-life people argue against abortion in the real case of the physical life of the mother. We would, however, like to see those cases done in a real hospital where real doctors could handle any complications that might occur.

But abortions were handled safely in a hospital by doctors. Indeed, were I being born today I might not be born at all, because as it happens in my home town Catholic Hospital West purchased the hospital that provided safe and clean abortions and refuses to do them any more. So now that the fucking Dominican Sisters have their talons into my home town, my mother would have been forced to go to a different city to get an abortion.

And that might seriously have been a daunting enough prospect to make her rush into getting an abortion. Catholic antiabortion bullshit seriously threatens the lives of women. And it would have caused me personally to not even exist.

-Username17

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:07 pm

Let's start one group at a time. Here is the response from Feminists for Life.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:10 pm

tzor wrote:Let's start one group at a time. Here is the response from Feminists for Life.

As a medical practitioner myself, I am filled with white hot rage at that bullshit. Those people should be jailed. They are literally telling people to disregard medical advice because medical advances "might" happen "in time."

They are attempting to murder people. And they should held accountable for that and put in prison. For a long time.

-Username17

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:17 pm

Remember people, be it about abortion, or anything said from any medical practitioner, always get a second opinion. Don't just believe the first nutjob you meet.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:54 pm

tzor wrote:the federal government linked up with this loan company to provide me with a college loan that literally had a lower interest rate than the rate of inflation.

What does this have to do with the private company?

The federal government paid the an amount (A) to have a private bank loan you an amount (B). B < A. In fact, the government also gives out loans (C) to students. C > B. No banks give out loans below credit-card rates (20%) in student loans unless paid to by the government.

How is this fiscally responsible? What 'private capital' is involved? What 'trust' is involved?

The government paid the same for both loans, and both had the same interest rate.

-Crissa

PS: Tzor is basically chery-picking his examples.

Heath Robinson · Post by **Heath Robinson** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:25 pm

tzor wrote:I know I’m an evil meanie for not wanting self serving butchers to, in the name of ‘choice’ brutally (and more often than not under conditions that most medical professionals would consider barbaric) assault a woman, kill her unborn child and leave emotional scars that will last for the rest of her life. Especially when a simple (effective; not the crap that Planned Parenthood gives out which is practically designed to fail) condom or a proper pill regimen would provide a safer method to control childbirth.

You actually believe the stories about people not using pills and condoms, then getting abortions? Really? You believe that people forego cheap and effective contraceptives for expensive, potentially dangerous, psychologically scarring medical procedures in anything except dire circumstances?

Edit: Okay, misunderstood the statistics I had. Redoing mathematics.

Edit2: Okay, new numbers:

Assuming 10% of the population of the United States (300 000 000 * 0.1 = 30 000 000, or 15 000 000 couples), in any particular year, manages to continually use both condom and the pill whilst fertile and sexually active, there will be 45 000 unplanned conceptions from this section of the populace under typical usage circumstances. Assuming that a further 3 in 5 spontaneously miscarry/naturally abort, that is still 27 000 pregnancies every year that were unplanned, and occured despite active prevention.

Since that's all multiplicative, lowering the assumptions about the population that can do this just means that you find the ratio between the percentage I gave and your new percentage, then apply that to the end result. For example, if you believe only 1% of the population can do that, then it's a mere 2 700 couples that tzor wants to deny reproductive control to, every year.

Remember that tzor claims to be doing this because he believes that people forego effective contraception because potentially dangerous, psychologically scarring medical procedures are available. Oh, and not to mention that those that do make use of that form of contraception (even after all other possibilities have been exhausted) will also suffer from a private shame at their having been audacious enough to make use of a legal medical procedure that a small, but vocal, minority have targeted for obscene hatred.

Statistics used

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:56 am

tzor wrote:I know I’m an evil meanie for not wanting self serving butchers to, in the name of ‘choice’ brutally (and more often than not under conditions that most medical professionals would consider barbaric) assault a woman, kill her unborn child and leave emotional scars that will last for the rest of her life. Especially when a simple (effective; not the crap that Planned Parenthood gives out which is practically designed to fail) condom or a proper pill regimen would provide a safer method to control childbirth.

I hate this Planned Parenthood bit. Around here, Planned Parenthood will pay for a woman to get an IUD - the same ones that real doctors in real doctor offices give their patients. They cover birth control pills for women who want those. They seriously will do whatever it takes to get a couple the birth control they need, be it a condom or a vasectomy.

I am so grateful to Planned Parenthood because they educated me better than my doctor did, because they listened to me when I had problems, and because when it was my choice to get off birth control, they supported me in that decision, too.

tzor · Post by **tzor** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:58 am

Around Here, Planned Parenthood gives out condoms that are on the bottom of the Consumer's Reports scale as practically useless, they manage to get teachers to send children outside school facilities (while avoiding parental consent or obfuscating the facts) to indroctinate them not to trust their parents, and they spend millions of lobbying dollars to hide the true status of the lack of quality within their abortion mills.

And they are the fucking nice ones. BLOOD MONEY ... It gets worse. Much worse. "Our goal was 3-5 abortions from every girl between the ages of 13 and 19" Gain their trust and then give them low dose pills or defective condomns. This is Fucking Planned Parenthood, it's a fucking
abortion mill generator. This is on a scale that makes the anchient Incas seem like ameteurs and the Nazis like the little league.

I have more respect for Nazis, at least they were honest.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:23 am

I realize that not all experiences with Planned Parenthood are the same, and that's actually why I have such a problem with your rants. It ends up sounding to me like someone railing against all bald people because of skinheads.

violence in the media · Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:33 am

Tzor, you have it all wrong. Planned Parenthood's goal is to damage or destroy the uterus' of good Christian girls to prevent them from procreating and indoctrinating the next generation of the cult. Once all the Pro-Lifers are gone, then we can start having the abortion parties in order to summon the devil. Which we will summarily shout at.

I have all the documentation right here in my secret liberal dossier.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:35 am

Tzor, that claim doesn't even make sense.

First, you claim they give out bad condoms. Yeah, lots of places do. They're cheap. They're giving out lots. You refuse to give them more money for better ones. The condoms are still better than nothing when used properly - better than your rhythm method in double-blind, and tested by more sources.

Secondly, you still have no evidence abortions make this non-profit any money, not even enough to pay for the total number they perform.

Three to five abortions per girl? What insanity do you have?

-Crissa

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:20 am

Crissa wrote:Three to five abortions per girl? What insanity do you have?

-Crissa

He's actually pretty cogent as far as teabaggers go. But like the rest, he is deluded by propaganda and sophistry.

And while we're talking about teabaggers - here's a neat video of some teabaggers, courtesy of Something Awful. Enjoy the sweet, sweet reality-impaired cognitive dissonance and clueless ignorance.

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:49 am

Oh, it's a claim made by a member of an anti abortion group who used to work for a family planning group.

So it's actual truth has never been verified, but that doesn't stop people from repeating a lie as a fact.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:06 pm

violence in the media wrote:Once all the Pro-Lifers are gone, then we can start having the abortion parties

Between compulsory gay marriage partners only.

violence in the media · Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:51 pm

PhoneLobster wrote:
violence in the media wrote:Once all the Pro-Lifers are gone, then we can start having the abortion parties
Between compulsory gay marriage partners only.

Shhhh! You can't give away the whole plot! That was supposed to be a nice surprise for all the repressed homosexual politicians in the GOP! An olive branch, if you will.

The Gaming Den

What have you learned lately?

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